Forget the 5k debate - what about the Monday regionals?
09/06/2018 5:28:55 PM
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If you want to grow the sport, seems to me you should have the second biggest meet of the year on a Friday or Saturday not Monday which is becoming the norm for the Regionals. There are tons of spectators and cheering when they have been run on Saturday, not even many Parents show up when they are on Monday. Kids quit when they work hard all year and get to a lackluster final meet, a showcase regional keeps kids engaged.
If you want to grow the sport, seems to me you should have the second biggest meet of the year on a Friday or Saturday not Monday which is becoming the norm for the Regionals.

There are tons of spectators and cheering when they have been run on Saturday, not even many Parents show up when they are on Monday.

Kids quit when they work hard all year and get to a lackluster final meet, a showcase regional keeps kids engaged.
09/06/2018 6:04:17 PM
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@LunaRun you are right, that big nerd aggietom might be able to do something about it. Huge Nerd that guy is! Love to see what that guy would do in a street fight. "Hey guys I need my inhaler, give it back."
@LunaRun you are right, that big nerd aggietom might be able to do something about it. Huge Nerd that guy is! Love to see what that guy would do in a street fight. "Hey guys I need my inhaler, give it back."
09/06/2018 6:40:06 PM
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@LunaRun I agree with you. I think, from what I was told out while coaching in West Texas that region 1 did it because of every other year having issues with Texas tech games... makes me think you just move the location of that meet, but I know they’ve run that course for a long time and that’s not the popular suggestion.withso few hotels out there and the meet being in the middle of nowhere, Monday was about their only option. I don’t know why other regions followed suit. I don’t know that I’d say forget the 5k... and with the rabid folks around here I’d be careful because taken out of context those are fighting words! I also dislike that the certification deadline for district is so early that some places are running 19 days before regionals. Some girls basketball coaches at small schools push that like you wouldn’t believe.
@LunaRun

I agree with you. I think, from what I was told out while coaching in West Texas that region 1 did it because of every other year having issues with Texas tech games... makes me think you just move the location of that meet, but I know they've run that course for a long time and that's not the popular suggestion.withso few hotels out there and the meet being in the middle of nowhere, Monday was about their only option. I don't know why other regions followed suit.

I don't know that I'd say forget the 5k... and with the rabid folks around here I'd be careful because taken out of context those are fighting words!

I also dislike that the certification deadline for district is so early that some places are running 19 days before regionals. Some girls basketball coaches at small schools push that like you wouldn't believe.
09/07/2018 10:03:41 AM
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@Rgardenhc At this point, you're just being childish. There's no reason to single out Tom, who hasn't resorted to name-calling, etc. like others have. We should be able to agree to disagree on here and keep it civil.
@Rgardenhc At this point, you're just being childish. There's no reason to single out Tom, who hasn't resorted to name-calling, etc. like others have. We should be able to agree to disagree on here and keep it civil.
09/07/2018 10:23:41 AM
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@LunaRun I agree with you as well. Saturday is much better for fan attendance and the sport. Tracy Neely (UIL director of CC before, now Mr. Polk) said after the first time it was on a Monday that it'd never happen again. It went back to Saturday for one year and is now Mondays again. In her defense though, there don't seem to be many places capable of hosting that many teams that are also willing to do it on a Saturday. Although, moving it to a Monday did take it away from Humble ISD (Region 3) and other places that could have hosted the meets and did a good job. High schools can't host on a Monday because of student parking. Colleges don't want to host on a Saturday because of home football games every other year. This is the information we were given at the CCCAT meetings. I wasn't there this year so maybe more info was given. I think that if high schools in areas that are capable of handling the crowds would step up and host we could go back to the Saturday meets. I think it'd be a good change. Also, the state meet seems to go back and forth from 1st and 2nd Saturday in November every so often, I don't know why we can't just do that with Region and/or State sites each year. I know a few years ago people seemed to be on board with Texas A&M hosting the state meet (maybe even a region meet), but we'd have to move the state meet each year based off A&M home games. I'd personally be okay with that, but who knows.
@LunaRun I agree with you as well. Saturday is much better for fan attendance and the sport. Tracy Neely (UIL director of CC before, now Mr. Polk) said after the first time it was on a Monday that it'd never happen again. It went back to Saturday for one year and is now Mondays again. In her defense though, there don't seem to be many places capable of hosting that many teams that are also willing to do it on a Saturday. Although, moving it to a Monday did take it away from Humble ISD (Region 3) and other places that could have hosted the meets and did a good job. High schools can't host on a Monday because of student parking. Colleges don't want to host on a Saturday because of home football games every other year. This is the information we were given at the CCCAT meetings. I wasn't there this year so maybe more info was given.
I think that if high schools in areas that are capable of handling the crowds would step up and host we could go back to the Saturday meets. I think it'd be a good change.
Also, the state meet seems to go back and forth from 1st and 2nd Saturday in November every so often, I don't know why we can't just do that with Region and/or State sites each year. I know a few years ago people seemed to be on board with Texas A&M hosting the state meet (maybe even a region meet), but we'd have to move the state meet each year based off A&M home games. I'd personally be okay with that, but who knows.
09/07/2018 3:43:17 PM
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We host the region 3 meet, and it really doesn't matter to us whether it's a Saturday or Monday. As a host/meet director, both days have their own different challenges as well as perks. We were told to have it on Monday and we just did what we were told. We are capable of hosting either day.
We host the region 3 meet, and it really doesn't matter to us whether it's a Saturday or Monday. As a host/meet director, both days have their own different challenges as well as perks. We were told to have it on Monday and we just did what we were told. We are capable of hosting either day.
09/07/2018 8:12:05 PM
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It's basically because of the Tech football game situation that everyone has to do it, because I believe the UIL wanted everyone to be on the same day.
It's basically because of the Tech football game situation that everyone has to do it, because I believe the UIL wanted everyone to be on the same day.
09/08/2018 12:13:33 AM
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Look at it on the positive side two more days to train. The UIL is not in it to increase fan base etc.
Look at it on the positive side two more days to train. The UIL is not in it to increase fan base etc.
09/08/2018 5:13:57 AM
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@1500Meters.flosports Really it’s about 2 less weeks to train. Regionals was always the first weekend of November before our season slowly began getting shortened. But that’s another story.
@1500Meters.flosports

Really it's about 2 less weeks to train. Regionals was always the first weekend of November before our season slowly began getting shortened. But that's another story.
09/08/2018 7:54:57 AM
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@3ACoachK That’s something I’ve been wondering the past couple years—-Why has our season been cut back? I’d love to see the state meet moved to the weekend before thanksgiving. Move NXN two weeks later.
@3ACoachK

That's something I've been wondering the past couple years---Why has our season been cut back?

I'd love to see the state meet moved to the weekend before thanksgiving. Move NXN two weeks later.
10/19/2018 11:01:12 AM
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What would it take to have regionals moved back to Saturday? Is a site change possible such as San Angelo or Midland/Odessa? Would love to hear from other Region I coaches. Adjusting the calendar would be awesome. In my opinion the District Certification should be the third Saturday of October, Regional Deadline last Saturday of October or first Saturday of November, State Meet second Saturday of October.
What would it take to have regionals moved back to Saturday? Is a site change possible such as San Angelo or Midland/Odessa? Would love to hear from other Region I coaches.

Adjusting the calendar would be awesome. In my opinion the District Certification should be the third Saturday of October, Regional Deadline last Saturday of October or first Saturday of November, State Meet second Saturday of October.
10/19/2018 4:35:19 PM
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Zac I agree with you and 3ACoachK 100%. We are racing these kids in 100 degree heat in early August. Then shortening the season for what i dont know? Putting on a regional meet on a Monday denies a lot of parents from coming to see and making a big deal from a community standpoint. Especially the less advantaged economically. I think its a big deal to have a train of cars going to the state meet from a small town like Luling on a Saturday. Same could be said for Regional. I also would like to say that guys like Aggie Tom and others have done amazing things for the sport and i hope they continue to do so.
Zac
I agree with you and 3ACoachK 100%. We are racing these kids in 100 degree heat in early August. Then shortening the season for what i dont know? Putting on a regional meet on a Monday denies a lot of parents from coming to see and making a big deal from a community standpoint. Especially the less advantaged economically. I think its a big deal to have a train of cars going to the state meet from a small town like Luling on a Saturday. Same could be said for Regional.
I also would like to say that guys like Aggie Tom and others have done amazing things for the sport and i hope they continue to do so.
10/21/2018 4:05:40 PM
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I love the ideas posted here but lets look at things as the UIL sees them. Starting with the state meet, there are runner safety and competitive issues that would justify moving the meet back. The reality is Sam Tipton and the Girl's Coaches Association are more interested in moving the girl's basketball schedule up to accommodate tournaments, scheduling, practice, etc. You are cross country. You lose. Saturday would be the best day to host regionals but the UIL does not like having to deal with different hosts and logistical issues when you are in middle of volleyball playoffs and getting ready for football playoffs. The Lubbock housing problem is a real issue and that meet is evidently going nowhere. The UIL has also shown little willingness to split regionals in to a larger number of sites though they do it for track. That alone would solve the issue and you wouldn't need to find a site that was huge to host so many meets. This could be solved but knowing history of how things work for cross country that is a big ask. A&M is not a viable host for the state meet. That is not because the course couldn't handle it. One could argue there are few courses nationally better suited to hosting large competitions. The UIL has been loathe to send championships to college station. Round Rock is logistically a great place for them. They can sleep at home. There is ample parking and an easy way to control flow of people in and out of course (can easily charge parking/admission fees). The course has been improved though it is not the caliber of A&M. I believe that A&M could answer the logistical/financial issues of the UIL but they have little interest in going to College Station and the fact that A&M could not guarantee a consistent weekend to host the meet is a deal breaker. I wish we were football or girl's basketball. In that instance all problems are solvable.
I love the ideas posted here but lets look at things as the UIL sees them. Starting with the state meet, there are runner safety and competitive issues that would justify moving the meet back. The reality is Sam Tipton and the Girl's Coaches Association are more interested in moving the girl's basketball schedule up to accommodate tournaments, scheduling, practice, etc. You are cross country. You lose.

Saturday would be the best day to host regionals but the UIL does not like having to deal with different hosts and logistical issues when you are in middle of volleyball playoffs and getting ready for football playoffs. The Lubbock housing problem is a real issue and that meet is evidently going nowhere. The UIL has also shown little willingness to split regionals in to a larger number of sites though they do it for track. That alone would solve the issue and you wouldn't need to find a site that was huge to host so many meets. This could be solved but knowing history of how things work for cross country that is a big ask.

A&M is not a viable host for the state meet. That is not because the course couldn't handle it. One could argue there are few courses nationally better suited to hosting large competitions. The UIL has been loathe to send championships to college station. Round Rock is logistically a great place for them. They can sleep at home. There is ample parking and an easy way to control flow of people in and out of course (can easily charge parking/admission fees). The course has been improved though it is not the caliber of A&M. I believe that A&M could answer the logistical/financial issues of the UIL but they have little interest in going to College Station and the fact that A&M could not guarantee a consistent weekend to host the meet is a deal breaker.

I wish we were football or girl's basketball. In that instance all problems are solvable.
10/22/2018 10:45:59 PM
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Monday Regionals stinks!!!
Monday Regionals stinks!!!
10/23/2018 3:05:36 PM
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It seems we have a common ground among coaches here. I'm just unfamiliar with how these changes are made or how to make changes. I want to help in whatever way possible. Would moving our season back affect 1A, 2A, and 3A that much? When you look at it, it's only a 7 calendar day difference between what is on paper now versus the old days. I have no issues with the state meet being hosted in Round Rock, most economical place to host it that is "centralish." I know the UIL does not want to split weekends for difference conferences because it would make organizing volunteers more difficult on their end. However, I do think you could make the state meet a two day competition. Half of the conferences on Friday morning, the other half Saturday morning.
It seems we have a common ground among coaches here. I'm just unfamiliar with how these changes are made or how to make changes. I want to help in whatever way possible.

Would moving our season back affect 1A, 2A, and 3A that much? When you look at it, it's only a 7 calendar day difference between what is on paper now versus the old days.

I have no issues with the state meet being hosted in Round Rock, most economical place to host it that is "centralish." I know the UIL does not want to split weekends for difference conferences because it would make organizing volunteers more difficult on their end. However, I do think you could make the state meet a two day competition. Half of the conferences on Friday morning, the other half Saturday morning.
10/24/2018 10:40:12 AM
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@morgazac The process is something like this: 1) Go to CCCAT and discuss this. Get them behind the change. 2) Have CCCAT make an official UIL proposal. 3) Get TGCA and THSCA on board. 4) Attend June meeting and make proposal to Athletic Legislative committee. 5) Depending on how that goes (tabled, sent for superintendent survey, or immediate action taken) then you will probably need to go to the October meeting. It can take several cycles of this. Scheduling items don't take official rule changes. the process is easier. My gut feeling is that this is here to stay. They are short on regional meet sites already, so they're going to cater to Lubbock's needs and keep them on Monday. Just a hunch. Now everything else is up in the air - can we push every meet back 1 week? My thoughts are that small school basketball is the reason why we are where we are. Isn't it interesting that XC certification was right before girls basketball's 1st day of practice? I view that as the sole reason for this. All the state band and vball stuff is there to disguise the real reason as few competitors make it that far in both sports. vb is largely done by state xc. So it isn't that. Most football is. Regional XC on a Monday conflicts with very little. It definitely needs to be discussed.
@morgazac The process is something like this:

1) Go to CCCAT and discuss this. Get them behind the change.
2) Have CCCAT make an official UIL proposal.
3) Get TGCA and THSCA on board.
4) Attend June meeting and make proposal to Athletic Legislative committee.
5) Depending on how that goes (tabled, sent for superintendent survey, or immediate action taken) then you will probably need to go to the October meeting. It can take several cycles of this. Scheduling items don't take official rule changes. the process is easier.

My gut feeling is that this is here to stay. They are short on regional meet sites already, so they're going to cater to Lubbock's needs and keep them on Monday. Just a hunch.

Now everything else is up in the air - can we push every meet back 1 week?

My thoughts are that small school basketball is the reason why we are where we are. Isn't it interesting that XC certification was right before girls basketball's 1st day of practice?

I view that as the sole reason for this. All the state band and vball stuff is there to disguise the real reason as few competitors make it that far in both sports. vb is largely done by state xc. So it isn't that. Most football is. Regional XC on a Monday conflicts with very little.

It definitely needs to be discussed.
10/25/2018 12:45:06 PM
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@Aggietom Thank you for outlining that. I have brought this up to THSCA before at our regional meeting, but there are very few cross country coaches who attend (at least in our region). If Lubbock is the answer, then we should be allowed to compete on Saturday when there is no home game at Tech that weekend. Next year's FB schedule has them away at Kansas and West Virginia around the weekend of regionals. [url=https://texastech.com/news/2018/10/18/texas-tech-big-12-unveil-2019-football-schedule.aspx]https://texastech.com/news/2018/10/18/texas-tech-big-12-unveil-2019-football-schedule.aspx[/url] Is it possible for the some conferences to split from their current regional site? Our region only had 2A-6A at it, while Tech host all conferences. I don't know how the sites are determined, but I am guessing that you either step up to the plate for it or don't. Splitting could help the problem as less conferences would mean less travel/hotels. I would love to hear from some smaller school coaches that regarding the conflict of basketball vs longer xc season. Would an extra 7 days of xc effect games, numbers, and practices?
@Aggietom
Thank you for outlining that. I have brought this up to THSCA before at our regional meeting, but there are very few cross country coaches who attend (at least in our region).

If Lubbock is the answer, then we should be allowed to compete on Saturday when there is no home game at Tech that weekend. Next year's FB schedule has them away at Kansas and West Virginia around the weekend of regionals. https://texastech.com/news/2018/10/18/texas-tech-big-12-unveil-2019-football-schedule.aspx

Is it possible for the some conferences to split from their current regional site? Our region only had 2A-6A at it, while Tech host all conferences. I don't know how the sites are determined, but I am guessing that you either step up to the plate for it or don't. Splitting could help the problem as less conferences would mean less travel/hotels.

I would love to hear from some smaller school coaches that regarding the conflict of basketball vs longer xc season. Would an extra 7 days of xc effect games, numbers, and practices?
10/25/2018 1:16:01 PM
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@morgazac Region 2-1A is in san angelo, just based on the number of small schools in west texas. thats the reason for the split.
@morgazac

Region 2-1A is in san angelo, just based on the number of small schools in west texas. thats the reason for the split.
10/25/2018 7:36:15 PM
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@morgazac I don't feel as if our kid's basketball schedules conflict that much. As a parent I'm so frustrated by them moving state forward a week. It's totally conflicting with our state band schedule and since we are SO FAR from Austin it means I have to make a choice between driving 13 hrs round trip in 24 hrs OR having children stay at home alone in west Texas. I know no one seems to agree with this opinion but I also think it is a BIG disadvantage that the state meet is always held in the same locale. It should rotate between the four regions or something. The people that live in that area get to race on the state location 2 or 3 times a year whereas the rest of us only see it at the state meet. Our coaches can't be expected to drive us 7 hrs one way just to get experience at that course.
@morgazac I don't feel as if our kid's basketball schedules conflict that much. As a parent I'm so frustrated by them moving state forward a week. It's totally conflicting with our state band schedule and since we are SO FAR from Austin it means I have to make a choice between driving 13 hrs round trip in 24 hrs OR having children stay at home alone in west Texas.

I know no one seems to agree with this opinion but I also think it is a BIG disadvantage that the state meet is always held in the same locale. It should rotate between the four regions or something. The people that live in that area get to race on the state location 2 or 3 times a year whereas the rest of us only see it at the state meet. Our coaches can't be expected to drive us 7 hrs one way just to get experience at that course.
10/25/2018 7:37:40 PM
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@Riggers30 On the other hand, Monday regional meets don't bother me at all.
@Riggers30 On the other hand, Monday regional meets don't bother me at all.

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